DK Concerns and Suggestions.

I created this post with some of my old but updated feedbacks. I am not sure if the CM's or devs get time to read through all the things we write so I am writing my feedback until now, and I would invite all DK's both 1h and 2h to add to it to get a comprehensive thread. I would appreciate that other classes dont fight as to what DK's should get or not get, they are free to create their own threads with their own concerns.

I admit to have bias from the point of view of a 2h dk although I play both classes according to the situation. 1h DK's are welcome to add to the feedback thread without fighting over the new skill.

Ok. So I tried out the skills/knowledge/fame with live server proper gears, lvl 50 Dk and this post is only as DK feedback.

1> I still find the new skill "battle frenzy" for DK's useless. Please remove it completely if you may consider. Put regen back on furious cry by replacing the 2 point or 5 point skill and dragon hide by replacing the 3 point skill. for lvl45 skill maybe give a "chain-hook" sort of skill which if you manage to hit opponent with, would drag them to front of you. 2 points would keep the attention of the monster(s) dragged, on you for few secs, 3 points increase the "End-Width" of the hook which would increase the amount of monsters that can be dragged near you or players, on 5 points maybe add a direct increase in crit chance OR speed by maybe 10%CHR Or 20% speed for 3 secs pvp/ 6 seconds pve after the monster(s)/ player(s) have been dragged in front of you. The opponents would be able to avoid same way they avoid stuns by debuff(get out of being dragged)/immunity(not be dragged at all). NOTE: I am not a game dev, this is just a skill i thought up which could be useful both in pvp or pve which is as it should be. it might be OP or unbalanced or it might take the devs too much work to develop the needed things or it might just be a balanced skill that the DK's receive with all the nerfing that's been going on, but please give it a thought, but any skill on similar lines would be more useful and as @CM Greg had once said, more "flashy" as a lvl45 skill should be. In any case try to change the current new skill. Plus the last 2 endgame skills for DK's I find to be more PVE focused dragon fury, battle frenzy. I would love a endgame skill effectively and efficiently useful in pvp along with PvE.

2> The 5 point upgrade of ground breaker, splitting earth, has too low a damage impact reach. Either increase the radius of the fire damage or do the fire damage impact along the whole path ground breaker travels.

3>The skill tree, knowledge tree, fame tree needs atleast 10-15 more points so 65 points to distribute among the skills seems like a fair deal. Else we are only forced to choose whats necessary for survival and there can be no further customization.

4> I have already seen stats with 1h SW's having more than 2600 damage 60% chr 310% cd 70% travel speed 7.5K HP and 2.9k armour. If you plan to make them so OP I dont mind but atleast give us some passive resistance. Having 3000 resistance from gems alone is not plausible for even payers and is not good for balance in stats. so make it possible to have a bit higher resistance than we have now. and no please don't think increasing the enchantments on legend of resistance will help. Please give resistance to us in some passive way such as add 2% resistance for every 1 knowledge point we invest in hp. something like that.

5> As the Devs are adamant that new crit rate system is quite fantastic and "50% up Crit rate can be easily achieved without losing efficiency" so I think its useless now to try to convince them otherwise (doesn't mean the new crit rate system doesn't suk) . Give standard range of 250-400 and Consistent 4 lines on crit giving items like necklace, belt, adornment, rings. If we had spent time and money before to be able to do mortis solo or mortis with even newer players who might not receive help easily in pro groups, then make it so that it is still possible, a little trickier maybe but not the current scenario where its pathetically apparent that we wont be able to help ourselves too many times, much less anyone else. And for all players who think its good to nerf DK ego so that they help more in groups, well all i can say is that, you are wrong, many of you already understand why.
Adding to this: Please change the CRITICAL and ARMOUR ratings of lvl50 items, most of my upgraded lvl 45 items are better than lvl50 items at lvl48 and some items have 96 crit value at lvl50? Please make a range from 250-400 in critical for all drops and not give us these useless drops.
Also please don't think since you have given relative enchantment of crit on some items it does anything to better the crit rate. PLEASE give consistent lines in enchantments. Low level items used to give all 4 lines above 330 crit at 45. atleast make the range same at LEVEL 50.



This feedback is regarding pvp from a dk both 1h and 2h.

1> Please do a separate knowledge tab for premium/all players to switch knowledge configurations for pve and pvp so that we dont have to change knowledge everytime.

2> Either armour doesnt count anymore in dso or 2h weapon damage for sw's and steam mechs have been raised so much that the melee class is dead. 2h dk's who did pvp with 2h will take the biggest hit because they have to run in close and i was almost getting 1 shotted by a lvl45 2h koto SW and also a lvl45 akoto steammech even with +25% on less damage from opponent players in fame tree, 5k armour on 2h and 1650 resistance(all) . and i am lvl50 flagbearer. Now imagine when he would be lvl50 with lvl40+ fame and level 50 knowledge. I have been shouting abt skills but in that scenario we wont even get to use skills before we die. If ppl say 2h dks also did such damage before 155, then i would say i never had a match with another 2h dk where we were one shotting each other with both of us having near 3k damage. if people with lesser armour got one shotted, we also had to get close to them. We werent one shotting them by staying at base and firing a skill 1-2 times. If DSO wanted balance then 2h dks are not even on the scale right now. I am against asking to nerf other classes, I dont know how to address this, maybe increase latent resistance and armour(more than 10%) of a dk, i dont know but please fix it so that 2h dks can survive as a class of its own. Please consider making 2h class separate and giving separate set of skills and survival skills for 2h players, personally I wont mind if 2h DKs were made sort of a beserker like class.

3> We need an extra skill slot desperately, if you want players to be truly diverse in using skills.

4> The lvl45 skill for dk, battle frenzy, as stated above is useless(and this is worth stating over and over again). please modify it as stated above.

6> Sometimes in duels the cooldown's carry over to the second round, this used to happen before 155 too but now seems to have gotten more frequent, specially the dk regen skill, it started when a player got my hp down and i killed him that time and when the second round started my regen was still going on and then had a cooldown, the dragonhide skill cooldown is also carrying over to next round. please fix this.

7> Our rage, Since damage on all classes have been increased now, before dks can even do anything their regen skill gets activated because hp is already below 33% but rage? rage is not even 60 yet , dks have to use up stun debuffs ( jump and furious cry) on building enuf rage. then what happens after we build rage and get close to player to do something? we get stunned and die....
We have to use dragon hide just to move in close(sometimes we get 1/2 shotted even with dragon hide on) then we have to generate rage by jumping on him and if he moves away, then use furious cry, both of which are our debuffs. thus leaving us open to chain stuns. even against mobs in nahutalan , those scorpitls(?) do chain stuns.
So Please return rage regen to it's previous state. Also provide an option for stun immunity and that should not be only for pvp.


@Allogeneous Please help forwarding this post to the CM's if they miss it. I am desperate because this post is a bit old and I am not sure if the CMs and the devs have time to read up the forums in detail.

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@_Baragain_ I would love your additional input to this thread regarding a point of view of a 1H DK I know the current faults have been shouted out over and over again but I feel we need a specific post is needed where our moderators can collect comprehensive feedback for their reports.

 

Well, my first input is that you are likely going to get edit merged by the mods... they don't like double posts.

Second input is that I'm actually a 2H DK 95% of the time too. The only time I change to sword-n-board is for 5v5 flag carries and Balor. However, I do have some insight to 1H DKs.

Here we go.

Battle frenzy is a highly specific talent that has use only in special circumstances. The obvious one is to be an agro tank in PvE. The problem is that the agro skill is too short. Make it 5-10 seconds and then it is more useable. I would also like to see a 10%-20% damage reduction for all enemies effected by the agro. That would actually give it use in PvP.

One of the only other good times to use it is with a high HP build for regen. This is good for both PvP and PvE. It is also best used with the talent that improves the rage from Furious Battle cry and the one that reduces the cool down so that you can use it regularly. Also, to make the most of it, select the talent that gives you the 20% more HP for 10 seconds. Sure, you will drop to your max hp if the buff runs out, but it means you get 20% more HP from your regen.
The skill is not without use, but it is not as universally useful as say the RA's explosive arrow or the SM's Tesla coil, but in the right circumstances, it can be very powerful.

The hook shot idea sounds fun, but I doubt that the Devs will take the time to develop a new skill to replace the one they already put the work into.

I agree with the ground breaker skill. I personally have thought of and would like the idea of the explosion all up and down the length of the ground breaker.

More points in the XP tree would be nice. I like BigPapa's idea of earning them somehow.

Some passive resist would be nice, or at least add some base resist to armor pieces (say base resist=base armor of each piece).

Crit... I have nothing more to say. It is broke. I can survive low crit, just so long as it is fair compared to old low level legendaries. With the recent improvements to base damage, I think raising crit to the old values would be OP, but we'll need to wait to see what those noobs with 4 year degrees in video game math tell us what we should want.

Having two sets for knowledge, don't care. 30 seconds here or there to change things up don't bug me.

Damage mitigation... The CM's said that they are looking at it. Do I trust that they will do it right? No. Can I do anything about it? No. So, should I worry about it given that I don't give a darn about PvP at the moment (due to there being no PvE benifit)? Nope... not really.

Skill slot: Meh, I'd just be happy with a potion only slot or an essence toggle slot. I can survive without another skill slot for now.

Battle frenzy, been there, talked that.

Cool down bug: Capture it on vid, submit to Support. Then get told that it is a feature, not a bug anymore.

Regarding getting close, it is just a matter of timing, tactics, and experience. I have about a 9:10+ win rate against everyone my rank and below and about a 3:4 win rate against higher ranked players (usually serious P2Ps who have already bought the knowledge tree). I've learned that almost all players use identical tactics with slight variations and it allows me to anticipate their actions. It is sort of like fiction. There hasn't been a new plot device in the past several thousand years... that is what makes modern movies so easy to predict and call the plots. When it comes to PvP, there hasn't been a new tactic in the past two years really and it makes everyone easy to predict.

 

Indeed not! Please make use of the edit feature in the future Shiladitya.

 

Thanks for pointing out that my post would get merged XD lol Well your specific feedback is exactly the differing view within the DK class that I have experienced till now and that's why I wanted you to talk about it.

Well yes battle frenzy is a skill that has use in certain circumstances, and that's why with the regen back to furious cry and dragon hide, and aggro talent added to a hook like skill would be more fun as the game shld be. So please Godly devs, give us something fun

Resist can be added in anyway, as long as its added. Resist is something we dont gain with levels and usually dont grind from gear and I have no intention of taking resist from % resist stats from pauldrons, so please...

The only reason they havent added additional points to the trees is that they somehow find beauty and symmetry there, or its just too much work. Well its not making us diverse as intended and you gotta remember, its the best feature of 155 specially because so many ideas crop into mind when u listen to the talents, but now the skill points end as soon as you do your basic survival needs, thus ending your choice to play.

2 sets of knowledge i think would be very helpful, as I do diff knowledge sets for many diff situations so those 30secs keep adding up.
it would be a simple feature to add.

extra skill slot, i look forward to this for 2 reasons, pvp specific, i would love to use bloody wild swing and charge combo in diff situations against all classes, now if i use that skill it would take place of my dragon fury/banner of war which is only useful against dks, for those who like the new skill if they use it then they usually use it in place of dragon fury/banner of war in pvp.
another reason would be they are planning further content expansion in 2016. i dont see how they will introduce further skills without giving us extra skill slots. they are already in plans for a essence toggle slot, which shld be released within this year hopefully lol

getting close is a matter of tactics i agree, however if I were a SW after 155 i would easily be able to exploit the weakness of no stun immunity in a dk, a dk would still have difficulty exploiting that weakness for a sw with high speed. previously there was a choice between stun immunity or lesser stun time in pvp, so there was always that semblance of doubt against a player who played around with it. but now i know, that whatever happens if the dk doesnt have enuf rage, i can drag him out of his comfort zone until he uses up his hide immunity and debuffs and then pounce on him when he is bare. this is specially true against dks who dont drag the fight out to exhaustion and try to give it a fair fight.

Well more debate is welcome from other DK's and other classes. Thanks @_Baragain_ for your valuable input

 

Agreed, ad I wouldn't getting agro added to one of those... or at least give us some purpose to the agro, other than becoming the monster magnet. Like I said, if I had 10-20% less damage from foes that are within agro rage (or really anything on the 2 point skill that would make it useful in PvP), I'd spam the skill in 5v5 when flag running.

 

regarding the dwarfs 1 hitting you- my dwarf is lvl 49 his damage in pvp is max 3.4k atm and i cant recall ever 1 hitting a dk yet but it is very possible from someone with my damage and a good crit rate(my crit rate is 0%)

the rangers exsplosive arrow and sw's are doing the 1 hitting, getting chained stuned from full hp to 0 is also a big problem

here is also why some dks are taking more damage from dwarfs then they think they should, quick shot has a talent that changes its damage to FIRE damage so your armor is useless against that. tesla turet does lightning damage, and far as heavy shot goes im not shure

While im here seeing as i have a lvl 46 dk who used to be my strongest character(now sits idle) the problems i see are

new skill is crap

we are not getting enough rage to use our skills as often as we need to

in lor-tac monsters are doing way to much damage, my dk has 3k+ armor 20% crit 2k damage and close to 1500 resist and yet if he runs into too many mobs at once im dead. the crit nerf really hurts dks because less crit=less damage wich=less healing on mws not to mention you take our lvl 45 healing talents away and only give 1 but only at lvl 48

 

Thank-you all for stating your concerns and ideas/suggestions re. the DK class. I'll be adding these in a formal feedback doc for Big Point.

 

1) Rage jump is kind of messed up. Is it a stun break, an escape skill or an attack initiation/rage build skill? Combining all 3 in one skill is just pointless. Imho, the stun break needs to go somewhere else.

2) DK needs at least one more heal skill beyond that almost useless battle frenzy skill. Imho, take the heal off battle frenzy and redo the talents so that the old pre-R155 will to survive can be replicated for furious battle cry and dragon hide.

3) battle frenzy is one of the most useless base skills i've seen, and requires wasting talent points to get any value. Compare it with tesla coil, which is awesome for pve and pvp, even with none of the talents selected. My level 47 dwarf is just solo slicing through map1 with ease thanks to that skill, hunting for that last shard. Round up a mob of archers, drop a tesla coil, and hide behind a boulder. 1, maybe 2 tesla coils later, they're all dead.

4) i miss the old stun charge that stunned through the charge rather than just at the end of the charge.

 

battle Frenzy is useful if you know where and when use it, it's not a skill meant for solo players, and of course if the DK are going to be the punching bag it would be nice to have the regen while doing battle cry.

Since i am still lvl 36 in the wisdom tree, Berserker is still unreachable but i believe some of my problems will be solve

@Novadude I have found rage jump very useful, and the its stun break-escape and attack has been perfect for my game style; again i dont believe the skills are messed up, they are just fine, of course as @Shiladitya said above, perhaps we need new skills, definitely i'll use the semi MK scorpion attack on bosses to help the squishy mages and rangers, who keep spreading for all the map while they should come straight to me -.-.

Also i'll suggest to reduce the cooldown time for mighty swing, perhaps by .5 -1 sec, it's hard to stand against 20 mobs and wait for the mighty to be able again, of course we have escape skills but that doesnt kill them, and at least me, dk uses mighty for regen more than ever before.

thanks

 

it's the same as last time

the mages & rangers complain to the devs about dk's being too hard to kill in pvp

so regardless of the fact that dk's have to get right in there & tank opponents in both pvp & pve the devs gut the dk's

its so bad this time if the devs want this to just be a shooting game they could at least give us dk's the option of switching all our gear & gems to a different type of toon & just remove dk's from the game entirely

but i'd probably just quit as i dont like shooting games